TSOP fail!

[BuZz]

So, I thought I'd try to flash the TSOP. XBOX v1.1 - top side solder point. easy. bottom side, it would not take. Cleaned the area, but no go. After a few too many attempts, one of the points is no longer visible. gaa.

Luckily the xbox seems to work etc, so I'll just continue with the softmod.

My crappy soldering iron doesn't help, but I'm most definitely better with software than hardware!

[asbo]

Top tip, get a good iron Something like this CSI Station60W 60 Watt Temp. Controlled Soldering Iron Station

one of the points is no longer visible. gaa.

What did you do?!? quick dabs to bridge the point. Although I'm sure everyone has a different method.
Is the whole area covered in solder?
or black burnt flux? Slosh some alcohol on there if its burnt stuff, should wipe off.
Or did you lift the pad right off the board? I think there are alternate points if you have, so you should be able to give it another go. I'm not sure where the alternate points are though.

[BuZz]

Top tip, get a good iron Something like this CSI Station60W 60 Watt Temp. Controlled Soldering Iron Station

one of the points is no longer visible. gaa.

What did you do?!? quick dabs to bridge the point. Although I'm sure everyone has a different method.
Is the whole area covered in solder?
or black burnt flux? Slosh some alcohol on there if its burnt stuff, should wipe off.
Or did you lift the pad right off the board? I think there are alternate points if you have, so you should be able to give it another go. I'm not sure where the alternate points are though.

no solder at all. it wouldnt take to the points. some burnt flux was on there which i cleaned, but one of the solder points is no good now :/ It is possible it came off when cleaning or during one of the attempts.

anyway.. at least the machine still works shame you dont live locally to me hehe

[asbo]

hmm its been a while since I did a TSOP but I don't think I ever had that problem. Maybe someone had already had a go and messed it up? Sometimes you get that if the case has been opened.
I use one of those helping hands magnifying glass thingies as its pretty small.

You can post me the board and I'll solder it if you want. Same for anyone else in the UK, anything anyone wants soldered I'll do for free/IOU.

[BuZz]

are you able to sort it even if i have removed the solder point ?

its not a big deal, as a softmod is fine but. it irritates me how easy the top side was and how stubborn the bottom. i think in my frustration, i applied too much heat to try and get it to take, and hence the issue.

luckily, i mostly do software wish i had your skills though mate. your new cnc device build is just awesome.. kudos to you.

[AZImmortal]

There are alternate TSOP points that you can use if you lifted the primary pads.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=266342

If you decide to try to TSOP again in the future, I've found that it's easiest to tin a strip of very thin wire (I use 30awg), dab some flux across the solder points (always use flux when soldering), hold the wire across the solder points (you might need tweezers), and simply touch your iron to the solder points. The wire should bridge the points and then you can just trim the excess wire with wire cutters (being careful not to lift the pads).

[psychotron]

I've done it on 2 Xboxes the same way " AZImmortal" has done it. Another thing I tried to get the solder to stick is use a sharp Pen knife of exacto blade knife and very CAREFULLY shave/scrape the solder pad a few times to remove coating or whatever contaminate is on the solder pad before soldering. This worked very well for me when I had to solder to tiny vias on the Motherboard doing the jumper wire repair , corosion of the time capacitor had caused.

[AZImmortal]

I've done it on 2 Xboxes the same way " AZImmortal" has done it. Another thing I tried to get the solder to stick is use a sharp Pen knife of exacto blade knife and very CAREFULLY shave/scrape the solder pad a few times to remove coating or whatever contaminate is on the solder pad before soldering. This worked very well for me when I had to solder to tiny vias on the Motherboard doing the jumper wire repair , corosion of the time capacitor had caused.

I'm guessing that you don't use flux? Flux can basically clean the pads for you as you solder so that you don't have to scrape the pads. If you've been soldering without flux, buy a small container (it'll last you forever if you don't solder too often) and you'll be amazed at how much easier it makes soldering. As you can probably tell, I love flux.

[Xphazer]

Tsop points are harder to solder if you apply flux (liquid, paste, whatever). I used to think the opposite.. but time proved me wrong..
The best way to make a good job: Clean the points with isopropyl alcohol. Use a temperature controlled soldering station.
Now the "magic touch"... Right temperature for the right solder alloy you have..
Then all you need to do is to tin the tip of your iron just a little bit.. touch the 1st point and drag through the 2nd..
If the temp is too high: It will be hard as hell to get it done.. The solder blob will split easily. If its too cold: it could make poor connections.

I will make a complete tsop tutorial very soon.

[AZImmortal]

Maybe it's because I don't use the "blob" method to join the TSOP points (I always use a very thin wire) but I can't imagine how using flux would make things harder. Flux is so important to soldering that any good solder has a flux core. If anything, it should make things easier by making the pads "stickier" through the removal of oxides. What exactly does it do to make things harder?

[professor_jonny]

What exactly does it do to make things harder?

it makes the solder form a blob as the imputrities rise to the surface.

if all the flux is burnt off it helps the solder to form sharp peaks which makes it easier to brige as the impurities make it tacticle i think is the word ?.

i burn the crap out of the solder by putting a blob on the iron leaving it there for some time then touch to clean board and drag between points.

to clean the points i use a scratch pen they have a fine fiber glass brush at the end

lead free solder can help with this also but if you burn off the flux you can create a problem with tin whiskers shorting components it has caused satelites to fall out the sky and million dollar jet fighter planes to go boom but probally not a problem with the xbox.

[AZImmortal]

I think I understand what you're referring to, which is that the solder becomes pasty after you let all the flux burn off and let oxides form, allowing you to shape it more easily. The problem with this pasty solder is that it's less likely to adhere properly to your components because there's no flux to remove the oxides. You might still successfully make the electrical connection (it sounds like both you and Xphazer have had no problems) but these types of solder joints are more likely to eventually fail. The beginning of this video shows the solder becoming pasty and the problems of trying to solder without flux:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4

I would suggest to you guys to use thin wire if you can so that you can use flux to make more reliable connections, but this is just a suggestion and if your method work for you guys, then more power to you.

[Steffimaus]

I'm new in this forum, and started modding X-Boxes just this year, but i'm professional in electronics and especially soldering.

Basically, there are two ways to bridge any points on a PCB, the one described as the blob-method, and the wire-method. The blob method does work, but the solder becomes hard and may break easily due to temperature changes in the metal. Every time the Box is running, the PCB heats up, and that makes the metal expand (hope thats the right word, forgive me my germanness), and when cooling down, it retracts. After a bunch of cycles, this will lead to small fractures in the solder, wich are invisible to the naked eye, but sufficient to break the electrical connection.

So it's far better to use copper wire, because copper is a rather flexible material and will take the expanding/retracting forces for years without problems.

Until now i have only soldered around in two Boxes, but so far everything runs perfectly. My own v1.0 Box runs with Dual-Bios, with the Controller-Port 3 replaced by a switch to select wich bios to boot. That way i can flash a new bios to the one bank, play around with it, without the risk of making the box a brick. Port 4 was replaced by a standard USB-Port to connect a keyboard, the rest of the Hardware is still quite original.

If someone is having problems with the soldering stuff, and is around southern Germany, maybe i could help out. Just contact me.

[AZImmortal]

I just wanted to say that your English is excellent. No need to worry about your "germanness".

[asbo]

are you able to sort it even if i have removed the solder point ?

Yep, send me a PM if you want my address to post it to.

luckily, i mostly do software wish i had your skills though mate. your new cnc device build is just awesome.. kudos to you.

Well that's the way things are I suppose, I've given programming a try and just couldn't get the hang of it.
Thanks I've been taking things apart since before I could walk, there's a hilarious picture of me as a baby, screwdriver in hand, attempting to take apart my dads new router.

[xman]

And of course you'll load a non flubber bios for BuZz won't you Asbo.

[professor_jonny]

And of course you'll load a non flubber bios for BuZz won't you Asbo.

a non flubber debug bios ? is there such a thing

i guess there is pheonix bios loader

[BuZz]

are you able to sort it even if i have removed the solder point ?

Yep, send me a PM if you want my address to post it to.

luckily, i mostly do software wish i had your skills though mate. your new cnc device build is just awesome.. kudos to you.

Well that's the way things are I suppose, I've given programming a try and just couldn't get the hang of it.
Thanks I've been taking things apart since before I could walk, there's a hilarious picture of me as a baby, screwdriver in hand, attempting to take apart my dads new router.

thanks very much for the offer. i think ill just stick with a softmod for now, only because I only have 2 xboxes, one for dev and one for watching with the tv (and losing one even for a short time will make development tricky). this one is destined for the living room, to swap the one I have there now, as that has a hardmod, and I wanted my development machine to boot directly to the debug bios etc.

[Steffimaus]

a non flubber debug bios ? is there such a thing

i guess there is pheonix bios loader

i prefer ind-bios, because everything can be configured from a text file on c:
so it is easy to totally customize (or turn off altogether) all the startup screens and animations. plus you can set your dashboard in this file, so its easy to change to whatever you like.

[BuZz]

I should probably put some of the donation money towards a new box as a spare actually.