Vision dashboard

[Kozz]

Ok I didn't want to post on this thread, but now I'm getting really annoyed,

Like you I'am a long time "power user" and I don't normally give a shit about faceless handles like yourself either. But I don't think Dom could have made it anymore clear about the GPL breach than he's already attempted to 3 f**king times now !! I'm not a coder myself though I have poked and tweaked some video plugins in the past in efforts to make them work on xbox. It took me a while to grasp the concepts of "revision-control" and the part it plays to aid in development of projects and I think this is the part that you're not quite getting, let me help you to understand.

Its pretty simple, but let me break it down for non-coders/devs

1) An open-source project usually lives in a repository somewhere on the internet where anyone can get it, for example xbmc4xbox lives here

2)If person 1 improves some code they can push it into the repository and it will replace the old verson, but the old version remains there to keep a record of the changes made, this is so over time you can roll back if you wanted to.

3) person 2 can come along and look at what changes have been made since the last version(s) by looking at whats called a "Diff", this simply highlights the differences between files to make it easier to see what might have fixed something that was broken

4)person 3 can come along and make a fork of a project using all the code from the original, but they must (should) follow the rules, and at least submit their changes made to the original code, it might help others make further improvements and promotes growth to projects

So if something like "Vision" were a project available in a public repository, then anyone can come along and add even more improvements, and its development could potentaly evolve much faster

Another fine example would be M$ vs Google android, M$ might only have a team of say 100 people coding windows 7 in a building behind closed doors, only they have the source and only they can commit updates, It takes them much longer years in fact to develop a usable piece of software that is full of bugs and flaws.

Now take something like Android, its opensource and can be developed by anyone around the world even you or I could submit code changes to further improve it, the xda forum alone has well over 4 Million members, not that there all devs but it might bring things into perspective for you. It gets so many improvements and updates its hard to even keep the latest version on your device because by the time you flash/install it the next one is coming out!! But it took M$ how long to put out win8, wich is just a remix of 7 with some rather minimal changes to make it more touchscreen friendly

I hope you understand that its not all about who made what, or who deserves credit where, a big part is about making the code available publicly and being a team player so we can all contribute to it and the project(s) and ultimately have an even better/faster/stronger xbmc , vision, or whatever the project may be.

Its only my personal opinion, but I believe that the Vision dev(s) are only crippling them selves and the quality and future of their projects by not having the code in a public repo, anyone in their right mind would welcome contributors to their code/project to push out the very best product possible, if they don't want this then its their own loss and I feel sorry for their end users who must wait much longer for improvements on a project that might not even be living upto its full potential

[skatulskijean]

what can i say !

the Vision from BP Vision is a very nice dash its base on a 2007 xbmc Fork with integrated Browser!
And it has Vision !

We have sources from Dragon !
I can not say we have the sources complete but i have devinitiv dragon source on my pc it the same what others have to!
When i right understand on the site say BP that he open the source for development to other like (android)!
I wait and hope he make it!

For me it a bad Situation to understand why we not can work site on site and why he is going from this site!

I think with him we hat more vision for xbmc4xbox and a developer more!

It is one man what make the changes and i hope he give the source later back to all!

@BP

why you not put your sources on googlecode with svn or git that others it have better to understand what you do
i can understand that is will have time but please make this!

I think for the enduser it nice to have on future not two dashs what base on xbmc or is xbmc4xbox !
Why we can not open a branch for him that he put the code with diff on it

regards jan

[AZImmortal]

What a surprise, another "User" who doesnt care about the people who spend years making what they have possible. Thats the kind of attitude that makes devs question releasing new stuff. You spend years making something, watch somebody take your code then turn around and claim it as original and see how you feel.

And for the record I dont release src for my work since I only do closed source projects and dont use XDK/Open XDK

I am thankful for their work but as a human its difficult to care about or for a person that you've never seen or spoken to and who real name you don't even know. I just don't associate personal emotions like "caring" with non personal screen handles on internet forums. You're right I'm not concerned with who takes credit for what, its not like you're selling a product for financial gain, it sounds to me like this is ultimately about bragging rights when it comes down to it. "I made it", "No I made it" "give me credit" "no give me credit" , Who cares its made and all those who helped made it all possible and those whoa re still helping are making it more possible. The end user experience is what its always been about hasn't it? I don't care if people say they modded a box that I modded I could care less, it doesn't affect me or my life or what I'm doing or what I'm going to do or the way I think or feel or act in any way, its just one of those things that doesn't much matter.

So you don't care about how this issue affects the developers but you somehow care enough to post in this forum to tell the developers that you don't care about how this affects them? Way to be thankful. You should really just continue your life of uncaring ignorance away from this forum.

Ok I didn't want to post on this thread, but now I'm getting really annoyed

Same here.

BuZz: Don't let the ingrates phaze you.

[Dom DXecutioner]

@BP

why you not put your sources on googlecode with svn or git that others it have better to understand what you do
i can understand that is will have time but please make this!

regards jan

Jan, there lies the problem, that the dev is unwilling to share his work but he takes the work of others.

Whe you, jan, make changes to addons, you don't claim that this is you own original work, you make it clear that you have modified it and the source (albeit python) is available to others to review, change, brake or improve,

VISION's dev, however, does not do that, hence the problem.

[asbo]

I just don't associate personal emotions like "caring" with non personal screen handles on internet forums.

Really? Not even a bit? How can you not care about BuZz? Look at his cute little baby face

But seriously, every now and then when I fire up xbmc I think 'what would I be doing without it, thank Zeus for the developers' and 'Oh nice! Someone's updated Iplayer(or another plugin)'.
Besides all the legal and moral reasons to share your code, its a nice thing to do and (as others have pointed out) you will benefit from it.

[BuZz]

I've given up on this thread really, so I'll leave the others to it. My bit has all been said really.

Appreciate the support though.

I guess some people will never understand it - They might want to consider what they are doing here though. They run the software but don't care about it? The improvements and updates don't magic themselves out of my arse, it's me giving up hours and hours of free time, it to improve the software in a way so everyone benefits. The poster in questions comments are not really worth paying much attention to, and I suspect are intentionally argumentative.

Let's hope the people that don't care never need a bugfix, feature request, or ask for help, as we might not care then (Actually I would still help, but that's because I'm not like them)

** GONE FISHING **

[xman]

murphio- nice record on this site mate- 23 posts.....
8 posts regarding CoinOps and how good it is in the Vision Dashboard thread
4 posts accusing another member for having your EBay adds removed of which you were proven wrong.
2 posts trying to sell something on this forum
1 post thanking BuZz for help
1 post thanking Nidge
1 post thanking Jan
4 posts asking for help
Ow, I should mention in all fairness.
1 post helping someone about CoinOps

For a person with such knowledge of Xboxes as you wrote and actually selling many machines and only one, (1) post actually helping someone on this forum, best you stay over CoinOps. Gotta admit that is a pretty bad record to date. I have absolutely nothing to give in the way of software code but I do what I can in the way of hardware knowledge and my mods that may not be to the liking of all on the forum but just in case someone is interested in trying them, I try to give a full "How To" so others can have a go. These take me hours but this is one way I try to pay back to the community that I have taken so much from over the years as you have. If every member just sucked and gave nothing, where would we be today?. There is absolutely no necessity to give anything on this forum but when a person comes to this site with the sole intention to build up poor numbers on another, that really sucks. If BP were to stop tomorrow, where would you be. Absolutely no where because nothing is documented for others to follow. Seems you have a lot of faith in only one man to continue in a job that doesn't pay with a lot of members that don't give. Ow, I do apologize for referring to you as a "slug" but it is a term used to refer to spammers and I see all these posts from those in defense of this as nothing more. Irrespective of our different views on this subject, I do wish you great continued success with your sales of these fantastic machines you have been turning out. Would have been great to see them but like I said, there is no necessity to give anything on this forum but is greatly appreciated by many.

Regards Xman.

[SPPV]

At the risk of sounding like noob, if I may ask, what project(s)?

Installers:
AutoBuilder-Similar to Kingroach Ndure in that it makes you an XBOXHDM installer. Differences being gives a choice of making for a chip XBOX, regular softmod and Shadow C softmod. Uses SID. Choice between XBMC, Evox, Ava and UnleashX for dash (if XBMC isnt chosen its included by default as an app). Choice of emulators and apps. And automticaly makes the Linux ISO for you.

1-Click-Similar to AutoBuilder but makes a custom installer-boot disc for on XBOX based on your choices. Uses UnleashX as the installer base

Converters:
WMV92XMV- just like the name says, converts WMV9 to XMV
XMV2WMV- converts XMV files to WMV8

Formaters:
USB Fatx Formater- Formats USB on your PC in FATX for use on the XBOX (I just helped, LegendaryFire was the main guy on that)

And for the past 2 years or so Ive been maintaining SID. Bug fixes and updates and such

Thats the major stuff off the top of my head. Done loads of installers like AID (Xtras Installer, Emu Installer, XBMC Installer etc) but I dont realy count them when I think of dev.

For me personaly I got scared off of releasing my SRC mterial. When I did the first releae of AutoBuilder I included the source files for the compiler exe and some donkey punch turned around and added in some code to shut down Windows firewall and download lots of nasty shite. After that I said screw it, I wont release the source anymore. I have a pretty good rep in the xbox community and didnt want to be linked to trashy stuff like that. Mainly I work alone and have few testers which does make stuff kinda hard, but I love the xbox so Im willing to put the time in. My only goal is to help others, and make things as easy as possible for people new to the xbox. I dont claim to be superman or anything but I am quite proud of what Ive contributed to the community especily on things like the XMV2WMV converter since Ive seen so many forum posts on the net saying its not possible to do. I release my stuff with no GPL my only req is that its free. I dont wanna see anyody charging for my work. And I always make sure to thank the people involved etc and when I use others work (like XBOXHDM in AutoBuilder) I leave all original documentation in tact and make sure to thank everybody I can think of who may have had a hand in it.

[infinity8x3]

xboxer is just a troll, he is prolly reading and fapping to this right now.

[Bigby]

Why doesn't anyone do something about BP and his violations of the GPL license?

Here's what the copyright holder of XBMC can do - http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html

I have added all the details I know about the violation, if the copyright holder wants to take it further...

If there seems to be a real violation, the next thing you need to do is record the details carefully:

•the precise name of the product
Vision

•the name of the person or organization distributing it
Ken Disson (goes by the username BritneysPairs)

•email addresses, postal addresses and phone numbers for how to contact the distributor(s)
http://en-gb.facebook.com/disson
http://coinopsproject.freeforums.org

•the exact name of the package whose license is violated
XBMC: http://xbmc.org/

•how the license was violated:

•Is the copyright notice of the copyright holder included?
No

•Is the source code completely missing?
Parially
Some form of older source code was released under the name Dragon - http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format ... 3391465723

•Is there a written offer for source that's incomplete in some way? This could happen if it provides a contact address or network URL that's somehow incorrect.
No, there is no such offer at all.

•Is there a copy of the license included in the distribution?
No

•Is some of the source available, but not all? If so, what parts are missing?
Older source is available, but not current source code for the recently released binary

[Bigby]

I have also posted the violation details on the XBMC forums - http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?ti ... pid1264184

And to CoinOPs forums - http://coinopsproject.freeforums.org/po ... tml#p16257

[SPPV]

What a surprise, another "User" who doesnt care about the people who spend years making what they have possible. Thats the kind of attitude that makes devs question releasing new stuff. You spend years making something, watch somebody take your code then turn around and claim it as original and see how you feel.

And for the record I dont release src for my work since I only do closed source projects and dont use XDK/Open XDK

I am thankful for their work but as a human its difficult to care about or for a person that you've never seen or spoken to and who real name you don't even know. I just don't associate personal emotions like "caring" with non personal screen handles on internet forums. You're right I'm not concerned with who takes credit for what, its not like you're selling a product for financial gain, it sounds to me like this is ultimately about bragging rights when it comes down to it. "I made it", "No I made it" "give me credit" "no give me credit" , Who cares its made and all those who helped made it all possible and those whoa re still helping are making it more possible. The end user experience is what its always been about hasn't it? I don't care if people say they modded a box that I modded I could care less, it doesn't affect me or my life or what I'm doing or what I'm going to do or the way I think or feel or act in any way, its just one of those things that doesn't much matter.

Dont assciate performing a mod with coding. Ive got the vids on my youtube to prove it (with my updates to SiD, I dont speak to Krayzie Ndure) you can softmod an XBOX in under 90 seconds. but guess what I spent over a year writing XMV2WMV, and Ive spent multiple years on my/and others apps so thats a massive investmnt. Buzz spent cash out of his ow pocket on top of time to bring XBMC 4Xbox back to life. Its guys like him that inspir guys lik me. And makes all that facy stuff you have possible. All that any of us ask is that yousay thank you and respet our wishes as far as SRC or distribution goes. We are not looking for an Emy award or whatever. Just that people respect whatever license we release our work under. Idont think thats to much to ask

And FYI for most of us it isn even the flagrant "copy and paste" of Ms.Spears but rather his douche bag attitude. When I first met him it was beause of people showing up at Hq looking for help wih COPS and had gotten baned simply for posting bugs or asking for help on the official COPS site. He then accused me of beng threatened by his work even though Im not an emu (or dash) dev. Take from that what you will but keep in mind if you have issues you will end up back here, at Hq, or Xtras or XS looking for help. Why? because we dont care, we dont associate what we do with a big pecker, or require thousands of dollars of psychiatric pills to function

I have no axe to grind towards Vision/cops etc, I happen to be friends with some of the staff on the cops site, just as somebody whos had teir work co-opted can understand the view and feelings of other contribs to the secne And as a user(any user) since we are not looking to extort you for what he have done we would like you (the user) to respect our wishes when it comes to our work. Is that to much to ask? Is it to much to ask BP to say thnk you and onour the work of the guys who made XBMC and first ported vid preview (lots of vids on youtube to show it aint new)?

[Nextelhalo]

@xboxer- if you dont care then dont give your 2 cents because it isnt worth shit. You've wasted your time writing such long post's and I feel my time has been wasted reading them.

@all the other XBMC4XBOX guys, I sit in the same boat as X-man as far as skills but i've been around long enough to know that what Xboxer said was just a huge pile of shit. Sorry for getting tough here but I hate BP fanboy's.

[Nextelhalo]

I am thankful for their work but as a human its difficult to care about or for a person that you've never seen or spoken to and who real name you don't even know.

You should have seen the mad world wide scramble made by users/Dev's like Xpahzer/Buzz/Xman when this site went down due to Craig going missing. We tried for weeks to get a hold of him just to make sure he was ok and in good health, that's caring right there and if you wouldnt do the same thing (being such a long time power user) then you just dont belong here.

[Luigi]

Interesting stuff here

All I say is: Calm down guys, its all illegal on XBOX !!!!

Wonder what Microsoft will do with this site if they see that u can download illegal Binarys for xbox on this site per torrent.

Or has XBMC4XBOX a license to release this legal on xbox?

[BuZz]

The Xdk is an unfortunate issue, with no easy workaround. I don't like it at all but that It doesn't mean the gpl licence should be disregarded. I am happy to discontinue binary releases though if necessary.

[Luigi]

I love XBMC and all other illegal stuff on the Xbox.
I love that illegal Emuxtras (comes without source code)
I love that illegal Coinops and Vision
and I love myself.


I can understand if u respect the XBMC rules with the sourcecode for ur illegal XBMC4XBOX.
But then u should respect MICROSOFT rules, too.
All unlicensed emus and homebrew games are illegal.
DONT FORGET IT !!!


Whats the solution for this????

And whats the probleme for the BP guy to release the source?
Come on BP and give them the source for ur VISION.
Maybe people could learn something from ur skillz

BUt whats with the other guyz that dont release their source code?
OK I know that Xport source is on xbins but where to find that from other emudevs?

[xboxer]

I'm not a troll and I love xbmc, Im loving the android fork too. I've introduced innumerable people to the joys of xbmc. I'm just saying it like I see it from my point of view as JUST a user. To the masses the coders are unsung heros that they'll never know or meet and as I said before I am thankful for what they've done. I believe that to most people this is also true for 99.9% of all of the applications that we all use on our various devises. When I say I don't personally "care" this also applies to bp, I'm not anyone's fanboy. What I'm a fan of is awesome things for the Xbox. I am well aware that modding and coding are two completely different things and I give props to anyone that had the ability to code as I've never even tried doing it. I understand the significance of the licensing process I just think it sucks that progress is held up because of what amounts to virtual politics. I meant no disrespect and I would enthusiastically support an "official" alternative to vision with the features it offers integrated fully into xbmc but I don't see anything like that happening since xbmc4xbox is no longer officially supported by the developers at xbmc.org. I was also told it couldn't be done and that xbmc isn't for gaming but we all know xbmc4xbox and games go hand in hand. Most people are completely unaware of the minutiae of the coding process and have as much interest in credits for software as they do the credits that run after a movie ends. I always leave when the credits start rolling. I just want dopeness on my Xbox I'm not nitpicky about where it came from especially if its free. It wasn't my intent to offend people I just felt compelled to drop an opinion from my perspective, I have no reason to hate on anyone that had contributed to xbmc.

[AZImmortal]

I'm not a troll and I love xbmc, Im loving the android fork too. I've introduced innumerable people to the joys of xbmc. I'm just saying it like I see it from my point of view as JUST a user. To the masses the coders are unsung heros that they'll never know or meet and as I said before I am thankful for what they've done. I believe that to most people this is also true for 99.9% of all of the applications that we all use on our various devises. When I say I don't personally "care" this also applies to bp, I'm not anyone's fanboy. What I'm a fan of is awesome things for the Xbox. I am well aware that modding and coding are two completely different things and I give props to anyone that had the ability to code as I've never even tried doing it. I understand the significance of the licensing process I just think it sucks that progress is held up because of what amounts to virtual politics. I meant no disrespect and I would enthusiastically support an "official" alternative to vision with the features it offers integrated fully into xbmc but I don't see anything like that happening since xbmc4xbox is no longer officially supported by the developers at xbmc.org. I was also told it couldn't be done and that xbmc isn't for gaming but we all know xbmc4xbox and games go hand in hand. Most people are completely unaware of the minutiae of the coding process and have as much interest in credits for software as they do the credits that run after a movie ends. I always leave when the credits start rolling. I just want dopeness on my Xbox I'm not nitpicky about where it came from especially if its free. It wasn't my intent to offend people I just felt compelled to drop an opinion from my perspective, I have no reason to hate on anyone that had contributed to xbmc.

Ok, it's quite obvious that you have no idea what the GPL is or how it works if you think that needing to be in compliance with it is holding up progress on anything or if you think that this is an issue with giving credit. If you use GPL source code in your project, you're supposed to make your own source code available when you distribute the binaries. This will benefit the entire community because it means that any improvements/changes that you make to the original source code will be available for others to use. By NOT being in compliance with the GPL (by not distributing the source code for his projects), BP is the one keeping features that you might like in Vision from being integrated into XBMC, so since you only seem to care about getting a better final product, you should STILL want BP to comply with the GPL.

[xboxer]

I am not defending his non-compliance, I wish he would comply and get in line the with rules and everyone would be one big happy community. I believe you are correct when you say that we would all benefit from that type of situation and that the final product would be even better. But that is not currently reality so are we supposed to ignore and not use Vision because of this? Are we supposed to boycott bp and the things he's releasing when really despite the dilema with the GPL its shaping up to be a fun and functional dashboard? Should we feel guilty like we're doing something wrong by using it? I just want to enjoy the maximum potential of the xbox and with thousands of games to browse through the vision dashboard is shaping up to be an option to consider. Put it in front of a person who doesn't know about any of this stuff and you know they'll think its pretty sweet.