Virutal Memory?

[byron]

Don't recall this ever being discussed on the old forum, and don't know if it's even a remote possibility...but it never hurts to have your ideas shot down every now and then

READYBOOST

SAME CONCEPT FOR LINUX

I am truly starting to understand xbmc from a gui perspective, however I've only tweaked a couple of the program files so I'm unaware if this post will merely end up as a laughing matter or if it actually has merit. Could this be integrated? Usually when ideas seem too good to be true that's usually the case, but could this one actually be lucid? Needless to say that it would be pretty fantastic to just plug in a flashdrive and have less worries of losing another session of xbmc4xbox because the ram went to zero, even if it was just a 256mb drive...

[Geeba]

I think it already does something similar but uses the HDD.... but I'm sure BuZz will confirm...

Would USB1.1 be quick enough to use as a cache drive thou?

[BuZz]

Why do microsoft need a fancy name for "adding additional swap". unless it does something additionally

the linux link is just someone adding additional swap space on a flash drive. Nothing special there at least.

Virtual memory is possible, and there is some code for mameox made by xports. I've not looked at if something like that could help xbmc. as mame licence and gpl is incompatible, I would need to rewrite similar functionally, or get him to relicense that code as gpl. things like large image decoding could benefit. not sure it would be a massive benefit for other stuff, and it would be a lot of work to implement.

the short answer is basically no though, we are unlikely to ever have something like this, even if it is technically possible.

[Dan Dar3]

Re Windows ReadyBost, is not really additional, it's a faster copy (or most used parts of it), the swap system is still active, but writes to disk are delayed / separate work and reads are directed to flash stick. You can unplug it at any time and your system will still be stable. And that page is customer facing, telling them about swap is like explaining what is a bit

Coming back to XBMC4Xbox, it first needs a virtual memory system And I think even if that's implemented with I would assume some considerable amount of work (all memory allocations would need to be "virtualized" to write to memory and/or swap) and do the work in the background with physical and virtual memory allocations, swapping when needed, reading back when needed. Most of us we take it for granted, but it's not such an easy feat (each OS has a whole memory management system under the covers), and even if that's finally implemented and working, there's no guarantee that the performance of the virtual memory (disk) will be fast enough to guarantee any performance gain, other than being able to run larger programs or skins or whatever, but quite possibly, slower. So instead of getting a crash, you could get a sluggish UI, responding back in 30 second.

Implementing a ReadyBoost like feature is also another thing on top of it - even with ReadyBoost you need to have a fast flash stick AND a fast interface. As I recall the comments on the forums, the USB interface to XBMC4Xbox was quite slow, so I would say that would be a no go from the start.

[Xphazer]

Even with a swap partition (which is by far superior in performance VS ReadBoost.) on a high-end PC.. Its painfully slow compare to RAM.
As i keep saying for years... Its much better to have 1GB of very fast RAM than 4GB of very slow RAM.

It would be very far from a beginner job.. I wouldn't even know where to start Its a massive job involving tons of work and knowledge..
This question have been debated before on the old forum BTW, the problem is man power..

Patches are welcome as always.

[byron]

@ BuZz...

Virtual memory is possible, and there is some code for mameox made by xports. I've not looked at if something like that could help xbmc. as mame licence and gpl is incompatible, I would need to rewrite similar functionally, or get him to relicense that code as gpl. things like large image decoding could benefit. not sure it would be a massive benefit for other stuff, and it would be a lot of work to implement.

Good to know that it's possible even if unlikely...


@ Dan...That's pretty much what I was thinking, but I didn't know if xbmc4xbox already had VM implemented or not (guess not). And although, as Geeba pointed out, we have usb 1.1...the linux post above touches on that several times toward the end of the thread for possible benefits. That thread is actually quite humorous as it turns into a pretty heated Microsoft/Linux debate...mostly M$ hate bashing since it's on a linux forum

And that page is customer facing, telling them about swap is like explaining what is a bit

Agreed, just a general link to get the topic started...


@ Xphazer...

Even with a swap partition (which is by far superior in performance VS ReadBoost.) on a high-end PC.. Its painfully slow compare to RAM.

I get that, but as far as the SWAP/ReadyBoost goes they both use the VM for pages that are constantly being accessed for faster load times and snappier gui performance taking some burden off of ram usage as far as I can tell from what I've read so far. "Patches are always welcome"... I don't know the first thing about cpp

I was going to attempt the 128mb ram upgrade myself, but that's a bunch of ruined xbox's waiting in line for that learning curve. So I was thinking of ways that might be even a minor solution to ram usage as a whole. What I've learned from a skinning standpoint is nothing more than "parlor tricks" to relieve some of the ram usage, but there's only so much one can do from the gui

[skatulskijean]

Bought a 128mb RAM Board! I think anyone would be good wen here the solder-service for the 128MB RAM mod would take over! Is grist Xbox1 at reasonable prices so resytling

[Geeba]

Yep a 128 mainboard is next on my list as soon as I can get the garage cleared out and a decent work bench and lighting setup.... I have all the bits now and also noticed that BuZz added some code with 128mb support in

I need to keep the old gal going... even with XBMC running on other platforms the Mrs always says... cant we just use the Xbox!!!! and when I'm away from home boy does it make life easier!

[byron]

I searched everywhere, I could not seem to find a place! Where do I get one, how do i know it would work, and how much would it cost? Geeba...hook a brotha up

[Geeba]

Hmmmm its really a DIY job... I'm going to do my own... the ultimate xbox would I guess be the Trusty board which has 1.4Ghz CPU and 128Mb RAM - his work looks to be a very high standard, but I guess he has surface mount tooling etc... I'm just going to get a good solder station and take my time

these are pretty good tips the videos are pretty helpful

http://www.dynatron.org/howto/XBOX/hackit/MoBo/RAM/

[fxmech]

I have a fried board (bumped a resistor off trying to jump around corroded traces) -- the memory is definitely going to be put into another XBOX this summer.

A friend and I are working up the nerve to put the P3 1.4Ghz and 128MB RAM mods into one of these old XBOXes.

It would really be nice to cruise around with all the flair and videos playing in the background. Not to mention the extra space for buffering streamed video...

Thanks for the link - definitely going to need new equipment to do this one.

[Maza]

I'm eager to hear how your Xbox will perform with the P3 1.4Ghz and 128MB RAM mods. I'm thinking of getting myself the 128 RAM mod, I get the feeling that we're getting somewhere with the 128 RAM upgrade vice versa xbmc.

[Geeba]

Theres people on here that already have the 1.4Ghz/128Mb xboxes.... think of it more as an upgrade to a Rolls Royce.. not a Ferrari, it will smooth up what you already have.... and some higher res video will play... but its definitely not a path to full HD!

Unless you have access to Ball Grid Array equipment your going to struggle to get a 1.4 running... only 2 people in the world have ever done it... a company called Friendtech with the DreamX which had a celeron CPU grafted in and Trusty who installs 1.4Ghz Tualatin with a 512k cache (it was the most powerfull PIII made)

[professor_jonny]

I have a fried board (bumped a resistor off trying to jump around corroded traces) -- the memory is definitely going to be put into another XBOX this summer.

A friend and I are working up the nerve to put the P3 1.4Ghz and 128MB RAM mods into one of these old XBOXes.

It would really be nice to cruise around with all the flair and videos playing in the background. Not to mention the extra space for buffering streamed video...

Thanks for the link - definitely going to need new equipment to do this one.

save up big for the software to design the adaptor for the processor !!! in going to a 1.4ghz pc you need to convert from a mobile socket to a desktop cpu socket and getting a supply of adaptors or getting them fabricated is the problem and is a costly exercise. trace length capicatance and inductance can cause havoc at the bus speeds the processor operates at, it is not really something you can do at home and it often takes years of knowlege to even attempt something like this.
you could solder on a mobile p3 processor is no problem but they dont come in a 1.4gig version.

[darknior]

Why do microsoft need a fancy name for "adding additional swap". unless it does something additionally

the linux link is just someone adding additional swap space on a flash drive. Nothing special there at least.

Virtual memory is possible, and there is some code for mameox made by xports. I've not looked at if something like that could help xbmc. as mame licence and gpl is incompatible, I would need to rewrite similar functionally, or get him to relicense that code as gpl. things like large image decoding could benefit. not sure it would be a massive benefit for other stuff, and it would be a lot of work to implement.

the short answer is basically no though, we are unlikely to ever have something like this, even if it is technically possible.

Hi

For my part, i ask for this feature many years ago
It is the only feature XBMC never had, who can really improve it !

I LOVE WBMC4XBOX, i use it every day to watch series and films ...
But many times it crash for low MEMORY

Maybe using it to read films is not a good idea, maybe we will lost some speed to do it ...
But to show the SKIN and Fanarts, and Covers, .... it can be BEST and remove the OUT OF MEMORY problem who freeze the xbox many times

If you can BuZz, think to this option, it can really improve XBMC4XBOX
So few people have 128Mo of RAM and 64 is to short ...

[fxmech]

you could solder on a mobile p3 processor is no problem but they dont come in a 1.4gig version.

Sorry about continued discussion in this thread on the subject of mods, just want to thank you guys for your thoughts; for clarity I want to verify that everything listed here qualifies as a far easier method.

@Buzz: Did I mention my support for time to be spent on virtual memory experimentation? If even none of your findings offer any notable improvement, the potential rewards may well be worth the loss.

[Geeba]

I would of thought the easiest way of getting to 1.4Ghz is to give Trusty £90 odd quid and buy one done...

The biggest problem is with huge upgrades .... whos gonna code it? - BuZz already runs multiple projects alongside XBMC4XBOX so has other interests as well..... all other devs have long since lost interest in xbox, retired or moved to newer platform....

There was loads of stuff started that just didnt gain enough interest while the xbox was current... the open source XDK, the new file system that got round the 4Gb limit on external storage, low level GPU access for HD decoding.. and Virtual RAM as well..... as much as we all still like the old gal, I think huge upgrades are possibly finished...

[professor_jonny]

I would of thought the easiest way of getting to 1.4Ghz is to give Trusty £90 odd quid and buy one done...

The biggest problem is with huge upgrades .... whos gonna code it? - BuZz already runs multiple projects alongside XBMC4XBOX so has other interests as well..... all other devs have long since lost interest in xbox, retired or moved to newer platform....

There was loads of stuff started that just didnt gain enough interest while the xbox was current... the open source XDK, the new file system that got round the 4Gb limit on external storage, low level GPU access for HD decoding.. and Virtual RAM as well..... as much as we all still like the old gal, I think huge upgrades are possibly finished...

the 4 gig external usbdrive has been made available but it never went into xbmc when it was part of the main branch as james marshall did not want to put it in for legal reasons along with some video decoder that forms part of the xdk.

It is done via a hacked dll in the xdk and needs to compiled with it and i believe that makes it illegial.

i believe it was intended to be included in coinops there was talk of it at one stage but i dont know if it ever happened.

[skatulskijean]

the fucking legality isue on a old console !

[byron]

Can't stop thinking about this. I understand that implementation of this might not really make much of a difference but at the same time perhaps it could. I ran across this post from the xbmc forums from 2006 (prime time for xbmc development on xbox)...

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?ti ... #pid108559

Similar things seem to be echoing through this thread. The more I mess around with skins, the more I realize the cpu is the real pain in the ass. Am I wrong in thinking that a little relief in the RAM ~ better CPU performance? I like to obsess about concepts, and while they may sound "easier said than done," if you suggest the right thing to the person it might flip a switch So...would it be possible to swap memory in the same manner that cachmembuffer does with buffering? I guess what I'm wondering is could an advanced setting be implemented that would side step the amount of insanity involved...